Not bad ideas, but I would insist on maximum of 2 characters per person in the Source as I have 2 very good characters and would hate to be a loner with either...

-Mutt of Niska

I vote for the 2 character minimum too. I would like to have a high level archer and mage LONG term so that I can enjoy the bost of both worlds. I have no problems with throwing out mules. It is sort of questionable.

I also like the idea of partioning the group into archers, mages, etc. in the hierarchy. This will make things simpler for placement of new members. Level 10 or greater is a fine idea too. That should greatly reduce the unnecessary msg'ing, except for emergencies of course.

-Beryl

Why not have Caessa II swear to Druss. Then everyone else swears to Caessa. Druss' rank will always be equal to his highest vassal, which will be Caessa II. So Druss has 1 vassal - Caessa. Caessa gets two vassals. This makes her level 2, and brings Druss to level 2 by default. I'm thinking that this would be neat to keep them at the same level. And this would be the only exception from the 2 to a person rule. And it really wouldn't hurt the allegiance at all. It's like taking one person out of it. In fact, we could do this for a few people.

Here's an example:

Druss (5) - Caessa (5) (vassal of Druss)

Mizu (4 - v of C) Miko (4 - v of Mizu) Hakeem (4 - v of Caes)

Then Miko gets 2, hakeem gets 2. Mizu stays 4, with only 1 vassal. Druss stays 5 with only 1 vassal. This is a way to have a cirle of Druss' highest members, all at the same rank.

I guess this defeats the purpose of the whole 2 per person thing, but I vote for at LEAST having everyone swear to Caessa, then Caessa to Druss. This will keep those two at the same rank.

-Hakeem

just one thing....... Mizu is lvl 25 Gar is lvl 26 ........................ Caessa is Level 24 Miko is lvl 24 for now we had better move quick 25 is just 1 hour of play away.... Mutt of Niska is 23........ so what lvl is Cronson these are important to know Simone is lvl 23....... khali...... Simone is rank 3 because miko is rank 3 under her..... I don't feal it is important to switch patrons because you out lvl them.... that is not realy a big deal to me because of lvl gar has to pledge to druss or stay under rhodry.... I am just fine where I am right under Simone.... I like it there.. :-) keith

-Miko K-sun

All: So it has finally come to this. I don't agree with this, but I'm not going to go against the entire group. I am not going to be a vassal to anyone but Druss. My vassals are free to go if they wish to be part of the Reorganization. I will not be. The vassal problem has obviously gotten to far. I don't understand how this happened. I always tended to my vassals as best I could and told them to not recruit with pretty gifts and swayig words. I propose a final quest, one that I would voice often but deaf ears would fall upon. The Alter of Bael' Zharon. Let us work as one until we have all come to touch the alter, then wage war upon one another for rank and ascension. No alliances with others, no playing favorites, just might versus might in a free for all. To the victor go the spoils. This is my final challenge.

Joshua I
Some stupid punk

-Joshua I

There is great confusion about the future structure of the Source, and I wanted to give a couple ideas to perhaps help this transition.

1. Drop any mule vassals you have.
2. Give Khali an inventory of all remaining vassals, so the tree can be updated.
3. Give Khali your current level, and if you're close to leveling, make a note of that.

And try and do this ASAP.

More than likely, we won't need to do too many changes right off the bat. But we will need to make changes that require much planning to make sure we don't leave some higher levelers out.

Khali, I'm level 21 (will be tonight) and have one vassal, Kioken.

Dave/Monty/Hakeem

-Hakeem

Hmm, this requires some thought.
I agree with:

Point 3 ABSOLUTELY- I hate liars. Have to be around enough of them at work and in-laws living across street. grrrrr

Point 1 Agree - dont mind helping a new vassel tho (some dillo armor/sword/couple thousand to work with-not necessarily all at once).

Point 2 Not sure what to think. I want to use the higher rank items(Im only lvl 2, 3 would be nice). I have never advertized for vassels, mine have always approached me. I spend a lot of the time solo, mainly because everyone is across the continent or in places that if I log out in, i'll die when i come back-everyone else will be gone. I like the lvl 10 limit that was mentioned in some of the emails tho. I guess I will have to adventure with some other people more often. :)

Other side notes. I dont really agree with the reorganization of the source. I dont believe in prefabrication of a monarchy. :( I do agree that we shouldnt include mules. Will be dumping mine tonight. :) I really liked being a vassel of Miko K-sun (orginally No-Leggs). He is a good patron ;) I really like having Beryl as my vassel. He is a good companion.

My thoughts.
Ping (Clint)

-Ping

Hello all, Cool...I was on my way to work thinking about stuff to write you all regarding the Source and I got to work and Mares had already written a letter with most of my thoughts in it. Awesome post C! I agree with all of it and I have one point to add, as leader Druss can delegate. I personally would have no problems with Druss telling Gar "Hey I am busy but so-and-so asked me to help him find/retrieve his corpse." My answer would most likely be "Hold...running for my life", and then "Sure boss, what city is it near?" I would be more then happy to help people out. Also it is important to let the vassals know (correct me if I am wrong Jamie) that it is ok to talk to Druss once in awhile, but he is not there to answer all their questions and requests, that is the patrons job or the manual that came with AC's job or even other players.

I am happy the flow seems to have turned to not reorganizing the Source, just in fixing the problems. I personally have get loyalty to my patron, Rhodry, and don't want to leave him, even though I am many levels higher then him. I also have great loyalty to the Source and I want to see it thrive and prosper, not get bogged down in political debates and vassal quagmires. Another side note: If anyone wishes to visit the Dires just let me know, I will be happy to portal you there and show you the ropes.

-Garurumon

Possibly a time limmit to those NOT level 10 to get to level 10 in say 2 weeks or whatever This way if they are "serious" Members they will do it, otherwise they are dissmissed.

-Mutt of Niska

My turn now, too.

> Let's start with the simple one....... remove all
> mules from The Source,

Strongly agree with this - seems to be a good concensus. Actually, I never added mules either to me, or added my mules to anyone. Seems pointless - I mean, who are we competing with but ourselves? Are we trying to be bigger than the 250 person monarchy up the hill? Is it worth cheating to get there?

> Ok next simple one..... out leveling your patron....
> just because you
> become a higher lvl then you patron there is no
> reason to switch the
> order

Also agree. This whole switching idea is silly. But it sprang from wanting to get down to 2-3 vassals each. And, frankly, some people might want more than that. And if they can handle 5-6 vassals, say after 2-3 of them are pretty self-sufficient, is that so bad? Again, the main reason it seems to have 2 per person is to speed pump our ranks... Is this REALLY important to people? If so, then we can look at it. I had not thought it was.

Now, the correlary of this is that each person must look carefully at the vassals they have. Do you have people who joined you, grabbed some notes from you, then disappeared never to be seen again? Do you have people who have joined us, and later you have realized they are really not what we want in the Source? Some allegiances have been ruined (I'm seeing more of this trouble in DT of course, in the good-aligned allegiances) by 1 or 2 bad apples who have snuck in.

Time not so much to reorganize, as to drop the dead wood, and set some SOLID rules, written down on the webpage, for recruiting. Who can approve new vassals? What lvl they must be. How many vassals below say L20 can you have (I'd say the limit be 2 vassals below L20, and NONE below L10, unless of course they are already here, then they get grandfather claused)? How long and what precisely are the methods of accepting people in? You know, I saw one allegiance in YANSHI, OUR hometown, who had a big get-together and ceremony every time someone joined. Not sure which allegiance it was. Wouldn't that be nice? When I used to play Genesis (an _old_ MUD), I eventually joined a guild of knights. It took me MONTHS, and hundreds of hours online, to join. When I finally got in, dozens of other Knights who were friends an mentors to me gathered, the ceremony was held, and then we had a huge ass party. It was a immensely moving end to a long and arduous quest.

> Let's now address the real problem in The
> Source........ I am
> opinionated so this first statement you can agree
> with or not but it
> will happen............... NO VASSAL IS GOING TO
> LOSE THERE PATRON....
> Joshua I is always going to be Druss's vassal, Imoen
> will be Mizu-no's
> vassal and so on Rhodry/Garurumon, etc. ........

I'm glad soeone else has said this. Sometimes I think there are too many sheep in here... :) I was concerned reading all the agreements with splitting us vassals and their leiges... Boy does this irk me. it goes against the whole spirit of the bond. Because that's what it is supposed to be, a bond between the two. Now, I was not planning to swear to Druss when I came online. And I told him when I swore to him that I might go off on my own eventually. He said that was fine. :) I haven't, nor do I wish to. But the thing is, I swore to Druss because he is Jamie Wakefield, and because of who Jamie Wakefield is. There is no other person on Dereth I would have sworn to, I think.

If Jamie were to delete Druss tomorrow and never play again, there are VERY few I would consider allying to even now. Not because I don't like all of you - but that bond is not there with most, of trust and intensely close friendship. (Heh - maybe I'm making Jamie blush again. >:)

What follows are more good ideas. Jamie, as monarch, you should try to draft something up. I'd be glad to help, if you need it, and I know others will lend their pens and ears as well if asked. Be well, Kevin

-Cronson

Hiro here -
My two cents on the issues raised:

1. Restructure The Source - The reasons behind this confuse me. If no one is interested in rank, then why do it? I think it is going to cause problems. For example, if someone thinks they are really valuable to the organization, and when the "reorg" comes out, and they are below 4 or 5 people, naturally, their feelings are going to be hurt. I think that the possibility of losing some good people is something that needs to be balanced against the benefits of reorging.

Personally, I think a better solution would be to identify those who are interested in rank, and funneling new members towards them.

2. Limiting a person to two vassals - First thought, how is this going to enforced? Second, think of it from the view of a perspective vassal; you meet someone (let's use Miko as an example), enjoy adventuring with him, find out that you have the same "online" schedules, decide to pledge to him only to find out, "Sorry, you need to align with Hiro, and by the way he's in Mayoi and only on three nights a week". Are you going to want to stick around for that? Again, I see why we would want to limit it, but it is impractical, in my opinion.

3. No one can join until level 10. Sounds fine with me. Druss is the one who has to deal with people "@m"ing him all the time, and if he doesn't want to deal with it from low-levelers, I can understand that and abide by it. The down side is this - by the time people reach level 10, they've already aligned with someone.

I hope everyone understands that I am not trying to piss anyone off with this, and I think there are good arguments for restructuring and limiting the number of vassals a person has. I just want to point out what the implications are by going down that road, and make sure we go into it with eyes open.

Here are some of my own suggestions:

Personally, I think that if we, as higher level characters, just make ourselves available for new vassals, it would lessen the burden on Druss, and that would help things a lot. Maybe, instead of just "assigning" a patron for a new vassal, there would also be four or five other names given to a new vassal. Tell the new vassal, "If you die and need help, run out of money, or need an upgraded weapon/armor, first try contacting A, B, C, or D. If they are not around, try E. If he/she is not around, then and only then, try Druss." This shifts some of the responsibility of lessening Druss' time-drain back to us.

Maybe someone could create a Master-Of-Arms mule; responsible for collecting useful weapons/armor and dolling them back out. Again, I think Druss gets stuck with a lot of this responsibility, and there is no reason why someone else couldn't perform this function.

That's it! I again want to stress that I am only making suggestions. There are a lot of good ideas that other people have brought up, so I'm sure whatever decision is made will be fine.

Hiro out.

-Hiro

> >Hiro here -
>My two cents on the issues raised:
>1. Restructure The Source - The reasons behind this confuse me.
> Personally, I think a better solution would be to identify those who are
>interested in rank, and funneling new members towards them.

Excellent idea. I don't think this has been brought up before, and I think that this is one of the best solutions for people who want to use items with Allegiance 2 or higher...

>3. No one can join until level 10. Sounds fine with me. Druss is the
>one who has to deal with people "@m"ing him all the time, and if he
>doesn't want to deal with it from low-levelers, I can understand that and
>abide by it. The down side is this - by the time people reach level 10,
>they've already aligned with someone.

Though that is a possibility is that a bad thing? Level 10 is very easy to get. Ok, maybe not very easy, but it's not that difficult. The Source is a small close group. If people want to join badly enough, they'll work to get to level 10. If they don't, they can go elsewhere, and there will be no hard feelings. I also think that even though we won't let them in our allegiance, they can still be in our group, and receive help from us. I have a few friends online that are not in the Source that I help. I enjoy helping new people retrieve corpses or do other things when I'm in town. Our goal shouldn't be to get quantity people in the Source. It should be to get quality people. And if they are quality people, they'll come to us.

>Maybe, instead of just "assigning" a
>patron for a new vassal, there would also be four or five other names
>given to a new vassal.

Another excellent idea. I understand that not everyone may want to be available all the time to help other people. However, I would like to volunteer to be on the list of names given out. I'm more than happy to help any member of the Source, from Druss down to the newest person. So if anyone in the Source needs any kind of assistance and I'm online, please /tell me, and I'll do it, if at all possible.

Excellent points Hiro.

I'd also like to clarify my position on this restructuring. I didn't necessarily like the idea of a complete restructuring. However, since Druss was the one who initially brought the idea to the table, I was behind his decision 100%, if that's what it was decided to do. If that is what it takes to keep the game fun for everyone, then I say we do it. Since then several people have come up with alternative ideas, and all the posts have been _very_ well thought out. I only have one vassal right now, and the restructuring wouldn't have affected me that much. I didn't stop to think of the effect it would have on others such as The Company of the Phoenix, or Gar who is of higher level now than his patron. Or naive little Joshie who thinks he can best us all in a PK battle. :) Josh has sworn to Druss and Druss alone. Is that so wrong? Of course not. So I am behind whatever the group decides.

Monty / Hakeem

-Hakeem

I didn't say I could beat you ALL. I want a free for all. Like everyone versus everyone. Not me versus the group, that'd be too easy for me. This way one person walks away a millionare. I'm already looking for good gear to give me an edge in this. It depends on what happens with the group to whether I'll take up this last quest or not.

-Joshua I

First off I would like to give Rach' mann a BIG pat on the back for his help the other night on AC Monday night. It turns out that MS doesn't accept Visa Check Credit Cards to pay for your accounts on the zone, I found this out after I was takeing a break that night and checked my e-mail. Thats where i found this msg from the Zone saying that my AC account was going to be shut down in less than two hours because of an error in their payment system. After checking all their pages for info on the error msg (the e-mail didn't say that they didn't accept VCCCs, just that my account was going to be closed) and found nothing. So i hopped back online and Rach came to two different cities to mule my stuff until i managed to get it straightened out. Again big thx and kudos to Rach.

Next, i am very new to this group (only about two weeks that ive been hanging around all of you) so please keep that in mind for the rest of this letter.

In my opinion haveing Mules as Vassals isn't quite right, the service a Patron is supposed to provide to a Vassal is one of assistance and friendship while they are on AC and that can't be done if ppl's only vassals are mules, after all the mule is rarely on and doesn't need any assistance from the patron, unless of course the mule can't find its backpack! :-) I myself have two vassals neither of which are in the Source per say because they are new players whom i have helped find their way around the game when they started. I myself have not and will not accept mules as vassals, and yes even i have magic items that require a higher Rank than what i am, but the items will wait for me and if not i can give them to someone in the Source who can use them.

Second, I can't remember whose e-mail it was that i recieved about assigning vassals to multiple players for help when in need of assistance before they head to Druss but i totally agree, my first patron was on for about the first week that i was playing and then after that he got sick of his charicter and started a new one, wouldn't let me go so i got hit with a 6500xp fee to revassal (although it has been well worth it!). The point is that if someone's vassal is in need of help we should all chip in, after all thats why we're a collictive, cohesive group and if we can't do this then their is no reason to stay togather, right?

Third, I don't want to revassal to someone else because of the tremendous help Rach has been, but if it becomes nessicary i will. I like the ppl in The Source and would like to stay with them for as long as we all will play. Dark will be the day when we stop playing!

I just wanted ppl to know that i have had alot of fun playing with all of you and hope to continue, thx.

Andrew "Rimmy" Maurer

-Rimgar Redsun

If I may, I'd like to give my $.02 worth into this discussion.

I'd like to give the point of view of a "peon" in this organization. I met Rhodry the first night I was online. He did not recruit me by offering me "gifts", although they were nice! He did not recruit me by "selling" me information. He recruited me because he took the time to get to know me and to try to understand who and what I was. I liked Rhodry because he was honest and fair in his answers.

I've talked with many other low-level characters about their alliance, how they joined, why they joined and how there were treated after they joined. A frequent answer is that they prostituted themselves: I'll be yours if you give me stuff. The idea that my patron actually cared about my welfare seemed pretty foreign to them, but that seems to be what makes The Source what it is. I have met many people who are (or seem to be) honest and forthright and that I would be pleased to adventure with just about anytime. I didn't like them because they were level 10 or better and could protect me; I liked them because they were honest people.

Another thing Rhodry taught me what the Friends list was and told me how to add his name to it. After I joined The Source, he gave me a list of other people to add to the list. While I knew that Druss was the head of this organization, I had enough other people to depend on that I didn't feel obligated to talk to Druss unless there were no other options that I could find. This idea has worked well and I don't think I've bugged too many people with stupid stuff. With the exception of the coat incident, I haven't bugged Druss at all. However, knowing that Druss was there, as well as all the other people I've been pleased to meet, has given me the confidence and support to go try. The game was much more fearful when I didn't have the information/support that makes the game playable. Especially with the new release of the product where it isn't even safe to walk the streets anymore, I cannot imagine playing this game as a level 1 or 2 character without the support of others.

The reason I mention this progression is because, to me, it represents the essence of the discussion at hand. The points that seem to be mentioned are:

1) Druss is tired of being bugged by people who don't think;
2) Patrons seem to be trying to buy people without full regard for the newbies character;
3) The Source is mostly made up of two groups "old-fogies" i.e. level 15+ who want to be able to adventure together, and "newbies" who are still learning the game and are in a different level of interest.

It seems to this newbie that had I had to wait until I got to level 10 before I could join The Source, I either would have quit playing the game or joined some other alliance. I have a few vassals, Samir and Rojon, that I get together with just about anytime they are online. I don't care what level they are now or will be, or that they give me EP. I do care that they are nice, decent people. That attitude is what attracted me to The Source at the start. The friends I've made in The Source are a large part of what makes this game enjoyable. While I might have met some of them by accident, having Rhodry introduce us to one another helped immensely. Now the three of us try to answer each other's questions without bothering Rhodry. Starting a new character in a world as diverse as Dereth is hard enough; add in enough beasties and not enough web-info about the critters, and you have many, many deaths. I'd playtested this game, read many, many reviews/hints/cheats on the game before I ever started a character and still there was (and is!) a wealth of information I don't have and haven't found yet. The informational support of Rhodry and others is crucial to the support of low level characters.

Where am I going with all of this? Well, first, I'm a newbie. Under your proposed rules, I would have been ineligible to join and would have missed out on many, many experiences. You are a great bunch of people (those I've met at least!) and together, we all make Dereth a better place to live.

I understand the Druss problem and I think Rhodry handled it well. Perhaps every newbie should be encouraged to do the math: Druss has 180 followers. If everyone just talks to him for 1 minute, he loses 3 hours of playtime EVERY day. A newbie can especially understand the problem since they are so jazzed about getting started. I think I can agree with a minimum required level to join, but I think level 2 or 3 should be sufficient. If you find someone interesting, hunt with them and get to know them. In the 2 or 4 hours it takes to get to those levels, you can get a pretty good idea of the character of the newbie. They can gradually be indoctrinated into the character requirements and behaviour requirements of being a member of The Source.

I think the Master Mule idea is great, but how to administer it? Whoever is the owner of the mule would need to be on a majority of the time unless some sort of a schedule could be set up i.e. the mule would be available from 7-9pm nightly or somesuch. That seems like too much organization for me... Maybe we could just use suggest that all mules meet in Mayoi every Sunday from 10-noon EST? This could also be a time to share information with one another in a more intimate fashion. I almost wish it were possible to create a Source Store or castle. Members of The Source only allowed, but we could all pool our resources. I had thought that idea was possible, but I haven't found any real information on how one could go about setting it up.

Anyways, here are my $.02 worth of thought. Since most of the conversation has been from higher level characters, I thought information from a peon might be beneficial. Whatever decision is made, I have been pleased to know and hunt with all of you that I have met and I look forward to developing more friendships as time progresses. I would not hesitate to share my comraderie with anyone that I meet. Having said that, id'ing a character and finding that they are a member of The Source has become almost a guarantee that the person will be honest and forthright. I think that is an important generalization and should not be overlooked.

Sincerely,
Valorie Osterman
AKA Herrigal Eugen (and Ninny who is no longer a Source member)

-Herrigal Eugen

Hi- I'm relatively new, and may not no all the existing rules, but would it be possible for the Source to have more than one Monarch? The Monarchs could form a triumvirate, or even round table of leaders within the source. This could elevate some of the problems mentioned, and would reduce the burden on a single Monarch.

(From where cometh the term : "The Burdeon of Leadership )

-Eagle Ib

Hey all ..
I'm fairly new to this all but have 3 characters now .. Doing pretty well too .. To tell you the truth I like things SMALL .. and it should stay that way ... I mean if it gets to BIG whos gonna manage everything .. Either that or stop recruitng all together and get 1 member every month, week etc ...

Just my thoughtz ..
KiOKeN

-Kioken

Hi to everyone. I don't know most of you in game or in person but I have seen many great ideas posted. Some of them have changed my perspective. I beleive that the Source was started as an oganization with Druss at the head with all original members pledging based on his personality and goals. As such, I beleive it is up to him to tell us what he is willing to put up with in this hugely disorganized organization. As a group, we can then put together a format for the guild. Anyone who does not like what "rules" either Druss or the rest of the group sets out is free to go. If rank is not a goal then I don't think we should make a big deal about reassigning everyone but maybe assigning contact people and people on body duty. On the issue of mules, I think they should be allowed to get people to rank 2 but when they get two followers dump the mules. I think maybe we should look into an alternate Source for lower level guys like a training ground or a league of substitute source members. We had a system like that in UO, a barony under the kingdom of Dalraida, which seemed to work pretty well. I am almost 16th level and would hate to think that I would fall into that group but if I do- so be it. In such an organization we would look at both guilds as the same and help each other out whenever possible. I personally try help out anyone I can no matter who they are not that I am an angel about it. On another note, I am certainly as guilty as anyone of clogging up Druss' message screen but for people Jamie knows it has been very difficult to get through to him on the phone these last weeks, months for some reason. Well I guess I am through rambling now.

Don
Silver Fist

-Silver Fist

> >3. No one can join until level 10. Sounds fine with me.
> Druss is the one who has to deal with people "@m"ing him all the time, and if he
> >doesn't want to deal with it from low-levelers, I can understand that and
> >abide by it. The down side is this - by the time people reach level 10,
> >they've already aligned with someone.
>
> Though that is a possibility is that a bad thing? Level 10
> is very easy to get. Ok, maybe not very easy, but it's not
> that difficult. The Source is a small close group. If
> people want to join badly enough, they'll work to get to
> level 10. If they don't, they can go elsewhere, and there
> will be no hard feelings.

I think there's a problem with this idea. Just my own personal opinion and of course I'll abide with what the majority thinks.

If we start limiting membership to certain levels, The Source is going to gain a reputation as "snobbish". This is a Bad Thing (TM).

Secondly, those who need help and guidance MOST are the people at the lower levels we're trying to exclude!

Here's my solution to a LOT of this mess:

Given that our base problem here is COMMUNICATION, both going upwards to Lord Druss and downwards to helping new vassals we should be concentrating on improving our COMMUNICATIONS. It means more work and I think that's why nobody's really fond of the idea.

1) The Source should have written guidelines. I think this is a REALLY good idea. These guidelines should be handed out by Patrons to potential vassals.

2) Patrons need to do the work to ensure people know what's in those guidelines and will abide by them. After being told about the guidelines, a day or so later the Vassals can be given a short oral "quiz" before swearing allegiance.

Patron: "So, Little One, who is your Monarch?"

Vassal: "Lord Druss!"

Patron: "To whom do you go when in trouble or need help?"

Vassal: "You, my lord!" Patron: "And if I'm not available?"

Vassal: "I try to get ahold of your cousin, Baron So-and-So"

Patron: "Very good. And when do you call Lord Druss?"

Vassal: "Only when I've tried the three people on the list you gave me."

Patron: "Very good. Now go get me 5,000 py and you can swear."

Um, just kidding about that last part. ;)

Anyway, this is the way Patrons should be swearing in new people. They should take the time to teach people The Ways of The Source (insert heavy breathing here), then ensure they have the knowledge to join. This keeps us from limiting ourselves artificially and helps improve communications up and down the chain of command.

Also, I think we want to avoid the "assignment" of patrons and such artificially. Again, it comes down to communications. If someone's going out and recruiting every person under the sun, artificially skewing the structure of The Source, HIS patron should show him the error of his ways. Incidentally, there should be guidelines for Patrons as well!

Another thing to do is have a policy whereby Patrons need to get their OWN patron's permission to swear people in. I could be mistaken but I believe this is the way it worked during the Middle Ages, anyway. This could be part of the Patron's guidelines I talked about.

You know, there's always the "Advocate" way of doing things. Volunteers from the source could spend time online serving as Source "advocates" on particular days so people needing various forms of help would only need to go to the web site and see who to @tell on a certain day.

Vassal (running for his life): "Let's see, if today is Tuesday, I need to call Belgious" Command: @tell Belgious, Milord, I have three Armordillos and two Shadow Lieutenants on my tail and I can't get away! What do I do? Belgious tells you, "What is your level?"

Command: @tell Belgious, I am 2nd level, milord!

Belgious tells you, "You die."

See? We can help people out and they don't even HAVE to be members of The Source! To me, helping others out when possible is what our Allegiance is all about. Call me a sucker for punishment but that's the way I am. I'll run like there's no tomorrow when I'm about to die alone, but if my buddy's in trouble I'll turn around and get killed trying to help out (and just getting in the way, more likely).

Other issues:

Mules shouldn't be vassals. Its not like anyone was trying to cheat or anything, most people just didn't think about it. If a "mule" is a true secondary character however, someone you go online and play frequently, I believe they should be allowed to join. Guidelines, once again. We want to have some structure to our structure, but we don't want to go overboard with rules and regulations, either.

By the way, I can easily setup a Source mailing list if desired. This would make it a lot easier for people to turn on and turn off these messages if they didn't want them. It could also serve as an alternative for group-wide issues like the ones we're discussing now. Let me know what you think (preferably in private email, we don't need to send hundreds of messages around the world to people).

Also, in my opinion The Source should NOT be a democracy. It should be a Monarchy where Lord Druss makes final decisions on important issues. We should trust that he'll listen to our opinions and get input from the higher nobles but the final word should be his, not ours. This should be another thing people know when they're getting into the group. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

Anyway, I've rambled enough. I'd appreciate any feedback on my ideas. Until next time,

May The Source be With You! (tm)

hehe

'Nuff said.

Phil
aka Rojon
aka Atlea
aka The Scrub from Hell

-Rojon

Ok I have told all my vassals the rules and they have agreed to tell their vassals

The Rules
1. No new vassals (for now)
2. no recruiting or buying vassals
3. no mules sworn to anybody in the source
4. If you need help Talk to your patron if they are not on Talk to their patron and so on till you get to Druss himself (preferred not to ask Druss until all others in The Source are unavailable)
5. If you want to Say hi to Druss that is fine and encouraged but do not be concerned if he does not answer you he is very busy and do not ask him question unless Rule 4 has been followed

That seemed like a good start so I put that in place for now till we get it ironed out And pertaining to the no one under level 10 rule You can still help out people under level 10 and should do so. And all the while they are leveling they will be thinking how cool we are that even though we don't allow them to members we still have time for them and they will hang around us and we can then get to know them

We need to have like a Squires list like the old days They you get to be a knight and then a Leader Within the Source Hmm any body got a rough draft of our charter sos the rest of us can look at it? I never seen no charter before And then we can decide who is in charge of drafting it

-Mizu-No