| Ping |
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Well, I did some calculations on damage
& speed on xbow vs bow. Being an Xbowman, I wanted xbow to win or
tie, but.... heres what I found. |
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Assuming all stats/skills/ are the same.
Assuming the bowman uses an AP arrow(dam 10 variance 10%), the crossbowman
uses a AP quarrel (dam 14 variance 10%). (Type of arrow doesnt really
matter)
Assuming the target for each has 200 health.
Assuming the accuracy bar is at midpoint (100% accuracy).
Assuming both men miss one shot out of every five.
Assuming the bowman is using a Yumi 1.33 mod with a 60%bonus modifer(over
the 1.33) = total 112.4% (extra damage)
Assuming the crossbowman is using a Heavy Crossbow with a 60%bonus
modifier (over the 1.5) = total of 140% (extra damage) Assuming
the Yumi is speed 45.
Assuming the Hxbow is speed 120.
You'll find that the BOWMAN will kill the creature in roughly HALF
the time.
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The bowman will do an average of 21.24 pts per hit. Total of 9.4
hits, which is 10 HITS. Remember to add 2 misses (1 in 5) = 12 shots.
12 x 45spd = 540
The xbowman will do an average of 31.36 pts per hit. Total of
6.4 hits, which is 7 HITS. Remember to add 1 miss (1 in 5) = 8 shots.
8 x 120spd = 960
Well HOLY CRAP!! Does that SUCK! (btw, if there is NO misses the
bowman total speed is 450, the xbowman total speed is 840)
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So maybe you think one of the following.
1. If you up the damage with BD spells the xbow will take less
hits and be faster. So will the bow. Bow Still Faster by huge factor.
2. If you cast SK spells the xbow will be faster. So will the bow.
You can count on the HARD CODED lowest speed of the bow to be around
20-25 speed. The Heavy Xbow is probably around 60. Bow will be faster.
3. Ahh, but a combo of points 1 & 2 with lvl 6 spells will make
the xbow faster and take less hits. So will the bow. Bow is still
faster.
Don't believe me, figure it out for yourself. Then post the numbers.
:) It comes down to this. All things being equal, the only way an
xbowman will every beat a bowman at the higher levels is to get
more criticals. PERIOD.
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Man that bites. :( |
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But you know what? I STILL LOVE USING
AN XBOW. :) |
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Ping's current xbow only has a 109%
modifier. I'm looking for one with a 140% modifier. If anyone finds
one (magic or not) please let me know. Btw, Mutt that last cool xbow
you gave me only has a 50% modifier. You said if I found it too weak,
you would like it back. When and where do you you me to give it to
you :) The Heavy Xbow that Druss found in the LOD for me the other
night has a 79% modifier. I'll keep that as a backup. Hope to see
you all online. Cant get into zone again. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
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Ping
(Clint) |
| Rhodry |
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k one flaw to your math is the assumption that a weapon spd 30
hits twice as often as a weapon spd 60. i do not believe this is
the case, as far as i am aware the spd is a variable in an equation
which also includes your quickness, and before you reply saying
that the uicknesses are the same lets look at a sample formula:
T=Time Q=quickness S=Wpn speed
the formula may be (2S-Q)/2 +100=T
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assuming Q=50, S=45 for yumi, 120 for xbow
we get T=120 for yumi and T=195 for xbow
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putting that into your previous calculations we get :
yumi: 12 x 120 = 1440
xbow: 8 x 195 = 1560
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not that different eh ping???? |
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DISCLAIMER THIS IS NOT THE REAL FORMULA,
DO NOT EMAIL ME SAYING THAT IF YOU HAD A KATAR SPD 10 AND QUICKNESS
220 YOU COULD ATTACK INFINITELY FAST I KNOW IT IS NOT RIGHT IT IS
MERELY AN ILLUSTRATION THAT DEPENDING ON THE FORMULA YOU CAN HAVE
VERY DIFFERENT OUTCOMES. |
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Pete
(math guy) |
| Druss |
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I also want to point out that caessa
did much more damage with an XBow than Sister C is doing with a good
BD III bow. |
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I also have to agree that speed has
to be factored some other way, because speed 120 on an xbow sure isn't
3-4 times as slow as a guy swinging a swrod of speed 30-40. |
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If mare was ever going to start over
again, I can assure you that she would spec in xbow over bow any day.
|
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later
Jamie
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| Ping |
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Ok, sounds like a logical statement. The way speed might be factored
another way, I mean. Couple things to think about in this post though
is:
1. Notice that Crossbow only takes a total of 6 to train and 4
more to specialize. Bow is 8 and 8. Why would xbow take so little
if there was not tradeoffs?
2. The xbow with Sister C is a tough call. What was the modifier
on bow weapons? I have used BD4 xbows that do about 31-34 damage
(on a specific creature) and "good" xbow does 31 damage normally
(without the spell).
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That modifier is SUPER important,
because it is the last thing the damage is mulitplied by. If I cast
BD 4 on the "good" xbow, (same creature) damage will jump to approx
44-48. Modifier is applied after spells as well.:) |
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Clint |
| Brin Lokison |
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Are you surfe about your mods? and
the way they're being applied? You're applying these new mods we can
ID to the Standard Mod for the weapon. I believed them to be the total
mod for the weapon. It seemed logical to me, plus all of my Yumi's
have been +33%. That would equate to the Standard 1.33 for Yumis,
where as your method would mean that the mods on all mine would be
1.77. |
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That strikes me as odd that all my
Yumis would be better than standard and all by the same amount. I
wasn't in the habit of testing each one to try and keep high mod weapons.
|
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Brin
Lokison |
| Ping |
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Yah Im sure. Instead of listing the
damage modifier as 0 to 60% they instead list it WITH the bow type
modifier (using the base damage as 0%). Example: Yumi is 1.33 damage
for Standard Yumi, then the damage modifer is added to that. Therefore
60% of 133 is approx 79.8=212% of total damage but the modifier only
shows the EXTRA damage OVER the 100% mark.Therefore 212%-100%=112%
modifier listed. And yes I have seen a bow with this modifier. If
you view a standard bow that normally does less than 100% damage,
like a Yag, it will show up as a negative modifer (assuming there
is no bonus modifier on it). Kinda confusing, isnt it. :) |
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Clint |
| Ping |
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Ok, I'll try to clarify some points.
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Turbine has coded the game so that
there is a chance that each bow found will have (or do) up to an extra
60% damage. This damage is 60% more than the bow in question normally
would do. If you have a yumi, it does 33% more damage than the standard
shouyomi bow already. Now you take standard damage (of lets say 10)
and a Yumi will do 13.3 damage, mulitiply another 60% on top of the
13.3 total and you will have 21.2 (approx) damage total. Notice you
are NOT adding 60% to the current 33% Yumi, you are Multiplying 60%
then adding the result. They are 2 different modifiers and the special
extra damage one is ALWAYS factored in last. So if you had a bow with
bd6 that had arrows that were doing 100 per hit normally, the Special
60% modifier would be an EXTRA 60% damage that is then added to the
total, therefore (in this example) you would do 160pts damage. |
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As for the displayed modifier on the
bow screen. Standard bow damage will be listed as a base of zero,
meaning the bow does 100% of the damage the arrow should do, bow will
display 0% modifier. If it is a yag then it will do 70% of the damage
the arrow should do(modifier will display -30%. If it is a Yumi it
will be displayed as 33% and will do 133% of the arrow damage. To
add the extra 60% damage, you take the total the bow does, multiply
it by 60% and you have your new total. 60% of 133 is 79.8. Add this
to your bow modifier and you will get a bow that does 212%-100% for
orginal damage and you get a bow that does an extra 1.12 pts damage
per point than a normal (shouyumi) bow. |
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The calculation looks like this:
arrow*bow modifier=damage*Special modifier
Not like this
arrow*(bow modifier+Special modifier)
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This is why the Special modifier can
be so high. It is multiplied against the total damage, not added to
the bow modifier. |
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Hope this helps. :)
Clint
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