*giggle*

/me dusts off her soapbox and climbs up .....

Ok, I usually try to be diplomatic when I post about controversial issues
... but I am sorry, I must say (again, sorry this just seems to be Sister's
pet peeve)....

Just like on HG, I AM SICK TO DEATH OF TREE CRAP!!! Its like a bad penny,
it keeps coming back and over and over it creates hard feelings over and
over. It doesn't matter if the tree is 2/2/2 or "pledge to whoever you
like" .. it will always be controversial and always cause hard feelings.

Ok, there I said it and got it off my chest and now I can move on to more
productive things ....

And for the record, what I am saying is not directed solely at Natalie
because she brought this subject up, so Natalie, please don't think I am
soling you out to pick on. This discussion simply opens up the opportunity
for me to express MY OWN PERSONAL humble feelings on the DT Source politics
in general.

The DT Source was created and with discussion amongst the original members,
certain rules were implemented. As hard as it is for some people to
swallow, TSS is monarch and we DID join HIS alliance (even though we did
take on the source name since the original group was all from the HG Source
group). Virtually single-handedly, TSS built a very strong alliance from
the ground up while all the others in the group still dabbled between HG and
DT and whether people like it or not he DOES deserve respect for the great
job he did (cuz lets face it, if he hadn't done a great job ... none of us
would want to follow him now would we). Even though I might not always
agree with him, I truly feel that TSS DOES listen to people's opinions and
tries to make the best decisions he can for the majority based on the
original rules that were decided on and as they have developed along the
way. Sometimes that means he has to make tough decisions knowing that some
people will be unhappy. We must remember that he will NEVER be able to make
all the people happy all the time.

If anyone wants to request the rules to be reconsidered... fine .. .ASK away
and let the chips fall where they may. But for anyone to say that the
rules that were discussed by the original group and implemented by TSS are
unfair because they may not fit *every* members needs/wants/desires is, in
some ways, a slap in the face to the original members who put their heart
into try to make the source on DT a great organization to join. As being
one of those original members, I always try to keep an open mind when people
question the original goals of the group (which, admittedly, is tough cuz
I'm as opinionated as the next person;-), I always try my best to be
considerate and understand other people's positions when we discuss these
matters.

If joining the DT Source is really important to someone then its worth the
wait and its worth going thru the same process that everyone else has had to
go thru. One should not join the Source SOLEY because your friend joined
the Source. One should also join the Source because of what the Source
stands for as a whole, be able to accept it as a whole and be able to work
within the boundaries of the group and be able to constructively ask
questions when they wonder why a rule is the way it is and/or respectfully
request it to be reconsidered if they have a good suggestion for change.

How many times have I killed someone aligned to a pk monarch and they
message me and say "WTF???? I am not PK, you are so lame because you killed
me because I pledged to my friend" They have no concept about the
organization they joined and I personally think their friend, however well
meaning, did them a great dis-service and they did a great dis-service to
themselves by not checking out what they were getting into.

On that same line, if I left AC to go play another game where the source was
already established, if the Source ways there were ways I felt comfortable
with, I would join knowing that I was joining their Alliance Structure that
was already established and it would be my job to respect that structure or
be respectful/constructive if I saw a change that I thought would benefit
the group.

And, for the record, let me just say that on HG, as creator of The Source, I
certainly think it was within their rights for Druss (and Sister) to have
used their executive powers to get "their friends" pledged into the source.
But once the rules for joining had been decided upon we never wielded our
executive powers. Our friends had to go thru the same process as everyone
else .. no exceptions. Alice has been friends with Druss thru the magic
community (and now me thru AC) for a long time but she STILL had to go thru
the same process as everyone else ... and in all honesty, due to scheduling,
etc., it took me a while to get thru her pledging process and she was
patient and waited for me because she felt it was worth the wait. And her
being willing to wait said a lot to me about her dedication to our group.

As far as my humble opinion about the tree and the cap.

I still support the cap at 30 .. I think that keeps our group small and more
family like. I like knowing each of the people on DT Source and having the
opportunity to adventure with and bumping into most of them in a day/week.
When the HG Source got to over 100, there are many people that I only met
because it was my job to process potential new members. The group, while
still a great group of people, was so big that it wasn't so much like one
big family ... it was like lotsa little families there were somehow related.

I realize the cap means that some people may not get to join and that is
unfortunate. I, personally, realize that this means that 2 of our closest
rl friends that have just started playing may not be able to join the source
... but we will still play together, we will still be allies and we will
still have tons of fun with them. But, if we don't have a cap then we grow
and grow and grow and before you know it the group is so big, its not so
close-knit, administrative stuff becomes almost a full time job for TSS and
politics amongst the group becomes even more difficult with that many more
personalities to work with.

****DISCLAIMER****

THE FOLLOWING IS MY VERY OWN *PERSONAL* OPINION and I don't wanna hear
anyone bitch at me cuz I don't understand the other side ... I do understand
the other side, but as I said ... THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION ;-P

****END DISCLAIMER****

Regarding the tree, I will say it again, I have always supported the 2/2/2
structure and still do (even though it has meant that druss and sister are
not patron/vassal any more). I have lived thru the "pick your own patron"
(HG) and I have lived with the 2/2/2 here on DT. I still say there has been
less controversy over the 2/2/2 structure than there was over the "pick your
own patron" -- if you could see some of the private emails over the subject
on HG ... it would turn your stomach -- at least I know it did mine. And
while it may be working out better now, according to Phil, there is no doubt
that it was a VERY bumpy road and the controversy on HG strained some
relationships.

I do not support the 2/2/2 structure because I am a vassal xp piggy
(actually came to DT determined to not have any vassals except druss) and I
do not support 2/2/2 structure because of rank (I could really care less
about titles).

For me *personally*, the 2/2/2 structure does not change/affect any of my
relationships on DT. With the cap at 30, it means that we all know each
other fairly well and know that you can call on any of us to help. To some
extent it means that each of us has 30 patrons/vassals that you can call
on -- not just the people directly above/ below you.

I think the 2/2/2 structure also serves a purpose that some might not have
thought of. Sometimes people pick patrons/vassals because they seem to
hit it off well in the beginning. Sometimes things change and it can put a
strain on that relationship for one or both parties involved. If you have
picked someone and then you change your mind for whatever reason(s)... it
makes it difficult. No one wants to say "I don't want you to be my
patron/vassal any more" and chance hurting someone's feelings. I've known
of cases of this on HG. I know someone that very strongly supported "pick
your own patron/vassal" that decided later in the game that they would
prefer to have someone else as a patron. Not necessarily because they
didn't like the person, but rather it wasn't as good a fit as it originally
had seemed like it would be. I know someone on HG that very strongly
supported "pick your own patron" and yet was very adamant that some people
were unhappy because the tree was lopsided and some people were getting a
crap load of vassal xp. Its a perpetual "no win" situation.

With all that said, if changing the tree structure meant that EVERYONE would
be happy and this issue would be put to rest for good and I never had to
hear anyone complain ... errr express concerns ... about it again for
WHATEVER reason, then Sister would spend a bazillion xp on her jump and be
first to jump on the bandwagon;-)

Unfortunately, the tree organization issue is so difficult because it is a
"personal opinion issue" ... no one is right (even you phil ;-P lol just
teasing) and no one is wrong. Everyone has their opinion and is certainly
entitled to their opinion. Sadly, in the end, it means you "can't make all
the people happy all the time".

/me climbs down off her soapbox (now that I have no doubt put everyone to
sleep) and prays that it collects a ton of dust

Thanks once more for letting me ramble and express my own humble/personal
opinions.

Mare
a/k/a Sister C

"Respect is a two-way street, you must give respect go get respect"